Yale Daily News

It's too late I'm afraid... I'm still far too offended...

Thank you for further explaining your point of view.

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/wrjp333pd.html

Abortion is highest in countries where it is legal and paid for by the government.

Absolutely abominable! If it is not wrong to kill a baby--in the author's own words "with arms and stuff"--then NOTHING is wrong.

"Arms and stuff." Thanks, Rasha. You just can't get better pro-life ammo than that.

I'm all for people clarifying things, but has there been some explanation of why the original article is no longer online?

"products of conception, which are then carefully studied in a separate room to ensure the gestational sac and fetal parts (if old enough), are present, ensuring that the procedure was carried out successfully"

These words as chilling. Regardless what one thinks about the morality of abortion, this utterly cold, clinical way of speaking about such a difficult matter is indicative of a deficit of basic humanity. To think that people like Rasha will be charged with providing "psychosocial support" to the women who feel driven to this "difficult decision"...

utter filth.

Rasha and her ilk don't realize that they are self-aborting their own constituency.

Unborn-Infant girls are far more likely to be targeted for sex selective abortions (not to mention infanticide).

This is sex eugenics at work!

I agree that some of her statements such as "arms and stuff" lack humanity, but we have to be subjective to the matter whether or not we are with abortion.

i'm sorry. "arms and stuff" may sound dehumanizing, but that's what the procedure is like. and she did say her goal was to give an idea of how the procedure is actually performed. it may not be pretty, but your not wanting to hear about it will not make it any different.

I believe the abortion debate is linked to the distrust of science in American society. You say that to speak clinically is "cold" whereas I say that to speak clinically (to say "products of conception" instead of "baby") is to provide a safe environment that doesn't impose ideology on women who are facing a difficult decision. Doctors are trained to speak clinically and that's a good thing, because you want them to be able to speak in language that is unbiased. Being able to describe a medical procedure in medical terms does not mean a physician doesn't also know how to be compassionate and caring. If you truly believe that "clinical" and "humane" are two mutually exclusive categories and one person cannot exhibit one or the other depending on that context, then your worldview lacks complexity.

re: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/wrjp333pd.html

That site reports percentage of pregnancies ending in *legal* abortions, so of course the percentage is lowest in countries where abortion is *illegal*.

Studies looking at total (legal + illegal) abortions show that the rate is pretty constant across countries and is lowest in countries that have the lowest rate of inintended pregancies.

If you want to end abortion, promote contraception.

It enrages me when men are taken out of the debate entirely. But even more it enrages me when the very negative and life long affects of abortion on the woman's physical, emotional and mental health are completely swept under the rug.

Does it ever occur to you that men, as fathers, might be very traumatized by the thought of a woman aborting their child without their consent? I think this is worse crime than rape actually.

We have laws in society that make us stop for a jaywalker, so as to spare their life. Why can't we put things on hold for 40 weeks to spare a baby's life?

Also, enough with that nonsense about contraception - it is a red herring. In this day and age middle school kids can get free contraception. If someone lacks access to contraception, it does not suddenly change the morally of abortion.

1) "very negative and life long affects of abortion on...physical, emotional and mental health"

Abortion is safer than childbirth. Late term pregnancy and childbirth put a woman at risk for hemorrhage, uterine prolapse, post-partum depression and psychosis, seizures, damage to the perineal body, renal failure, hypertension, among other things. If you want to say abortion is immoral, that's fine, but don't use the woman's health as your excuse for opposing it.

2) Contraception is not a red herring. 99% of abortions are because the pregnancy was unintended. If every sexually active person in America was on a 100% effective form of birth control 100% of the time, America's abortion clinics could close. Isn't that what you want?

Thank you #14! Abortion is not moral, but women's health is not an effective argument. Contraception is something both sides promote and should agree on, since contraception reduces abortions and increases the health of women.

@#13: "Does it ever occur to you that men, as fathers, might be very traumatized by the thought of a woman aborting their child without their consent? I think this is worse crime than rape actually."

The thing about roping people into a game of Oppression Olympics is that no one wins; but the person trying to play the game (i.e. you) automatically loses. "My problem sucks more than your problem" as a debate tactic ended in third grade.

Speaking of cold and clinical, discussing the pros and cons of different types of domination over a woman's body and health--forced pregnancy vs. rape--on an internet discussion board is more pervy than anything a med student could have been doing with those papayas.

What is disturbing about the "clinical" view of abortion in political discourse is that it represents a denial or the moral seriousness of the abortion issue. In doing so, the author avoids the real debate entirely, limiting themselves to the world of the extremist 20% or so who support unrestricted abortion (and maybe not even all of THEM)

The vast majority of Americans see abortion as a tough moral call, a trade-off between women's rights and some recognition that the fetus, while maybe not a full-fledged human life, does have some value. Khoury and her group should join the real debate or continue to preach irrelevantly to the choir.

Thank God I survived Roe vs. Wade! I was the third child. Almost aborted. But because Roe vs. Wade hadn't been invented yet, I was spared! I have a right to be here! Not even my Mom should be able to kill me!

#18

A moving and human point, and one well worth considering by many among us.

My mother-in-law pushed the idea of abortion with regard to my family's third child, now a wonderful, vivacious two-year-old without whom life would be diminished.

Addendum: relating to the "circumcision" forum: how many boys, given the opportunity, would choose circumcision FOR THEMSELVES?

Reasonable analog (barring the difference in magnitude).

I am really against qbortions. The most important thing is that if you don't want any kids for any reason then i think that you should be on some sort of birth control and second if you are younger then 17-18 years old i don't think you should be having any sex, because you are to young!!!!! You are not letting your body grow the way it's suppose to. We'll having abortions is stupid, your are just not going to kill a baby just because you are to young or can't support her/ him. Think about what you are doing before you have sex. Think about the pro's and con's of having a baby.