CZINGER: Sexual regret is not rape
CZINGER: Sexual regret is not rape
Wednesday, September 28, 2011
Despite conflicting opinions and ideological brouhaha, almost everyone at Yale can agree on one thing: a “rape culture” that includes swapping stories of rape over breakfast and hiding in alleys with knives does not exist at this institution. Instead, as Cecily Carlisle clarified (“Rape without ‘rapists,’” Sept. 23), those who use the term “rape culture” are referring to something more dubious and broad. Yale has a culture that condones rape only if we expand our definition of “rapist” to include hazy ambiguities: an intoxicated boy who hooks up with a girl who is “too drunk to give consent.” While I agree with Cecily that such cases are problematic and terribly common, I do not believe that all such cases should be called rape or involve a rapist. Moreover, by using “rape culture” as an umbrella term, we limit our vocabulary and narrow the conversation, ignoring a whole host of other negative sexual situations that need to be addressed.
There are gradations between “glorious, consensual sex” and rape; the term “rape” should not be used to describe every unfortunate or regrettable sexual encounter. Let’s be clear: I am not proposing that only rape in dark alleys with knives is “real rape.” But I do think the term is currently being applied to the wrong situations. In order for something to be rape, it has to involve a lack of consent, a perpetrator and a victim. As Cecily states, “[the use of the term rape] has value because … those who perpetrate a rape … bear responsibility … perpetrators do real damage to their victims and are accountable for the scars they leave.” In short, rape has a horrible, well-deserved stigma that must be maintained in order to shame perpetrators and bring victims to justice.
The example of the drunken hookup lacks a perpetrator. Consider: How can the boy know if his partner is “too drunk to give consent”? If he is drunk, can he really judge her state? And what if he is also “too drunk to give consent”? Sometimes things are more clear-cut and we can assign blame. If he is more sober, and can see that she is incoherent, sick or unresponsive, the standard is raised. If he proceeds while she is clearly “too drunk to give consent,” then the term “rapist” applies. However, many people not only appear functional when blackout drunk, but initiate sexual interaction with enthusiasm and aggression. Situations without a perpetrator should not be called rape.
The blackout drunk girl needs to share responsibility. Cecily’s assertion that “if she feels like she has been [raped], she has been” is inaccurate. It turns an objective crime into a subjective opinion. If the boy cannot tell that she was too drunk to give consent, then it is not rape. Her predicament the next morning is serious and upsetting. She has the right to seek counseling and reach out to her friends. However, she does not have the right to label her partner a rapist. Intoxication does not relieve all accountability. The drunk driver cannot tell the cop, “I am sorry, officer, but I was in no position to judge whether or not I should get into this car.” The fact is that when she drank that extra gin and tonic, she opened herself up to the possibility that she might grab that boy from Chemistry section and take off her tank top. As a feminist, I believe women have the right and responsibility to take ownership of their bodies and their choices — alcoholic, sexual, social and otherwise.
Sexual regret does not equal rape. We should not use its existence to defend the term “rape culture,” which is alienating, inaccurate and ultimately prevents us from creating a more positive sexual atmosphere. We should prevent behavior that prevents people from giving consent, such as alcohol abuse, unfair hook-up expectations, and mutual disregard. We should recognize that there are sexual problems on campus that have nothing to do with consent. The boyfriend who bullies his girlfriend into saying yes to sex seems more of a perpetrator than the intoxicated party boy. We should prevent the word “rape” from becoming meaningless rhetoric by adding other, more accurate and less offensive words to the table. Words like “sexual regret,” “high-risk sexual behavior,” and “sexual bullying.” If we don’t clarify our terms, we’ll end up in a state of perpetual fear. If we don’t know which real, specific situations cause the problem, we’ll have no way of fighting them.
Antonia Czinger is a junior in Timothy Dwight College.
Comments
theantiyale 8 months ago
" . . . the right and responsibility to take ownership of their bodies and their choices — alcoholic, sexual, social and otherwise."
This idealistic proclamation does not take into account the fact that for some people, alcohol is not a choice but an addiction/compulsion, one which they may not recognize as such for many years of damaging drinking.
CrazyBus 8 months ago
Nevertheless, that addiction/compulsion does not absolve them...
anon82 7 months, 4 weeks ago
What if it is the rapist who is an alcoholic. Are they responsible for their actions?
River_Tam 8 months ago
While I agree with the sentiment of this column, why on earth is the YDN continuing to publish more and more columns on the definition of rape?
sonofmory 8 months ago
thank you!
anon82 7 months, 4 weeks ago
Because there are more and more problems facing the university's administration regarding harassment, hostile climate for females, Title IX violations, etc.
JohnnyE 8 months ago
This is the first in the slew of articles that has made this important distinction. When a sloppy girl pounds 10 beers, why is she not responsible for the risks (read: having regrettable sex with an ugly guy) of her negligent behavior? When this happens to a guy (or a girl at other colleges for that matter), he just looks over in the morning, facepalms, and gets on with his life.
SY13 8 months ago
//The blackout drunk girl needs to share responsibility. //
Why should the victim of assault ever have to share responsibility for being assaulted? Isn't this just victim-blaming?
morse_14 8 months ago
Why is the girl automatically viewed as the victim? If the boy is equally drunk, why is it automatically all his fault?
Frashizzle 8 months ago
Thank you.
CrazyBus 8 months ago
You can't disclaim responsibility just because you're drunk...try getting blackout, killing someone, and then claiming in court that it wasn't your fault because you were drunk and didn't know better.
Frashizzle 8 months ago
Consensual sex between two drunk parties is not rape if one party regrets it in the morning but doesn't give any indication during the encounter.
River_Tam 8 months ago
If I throw a rock at a dog and the dog mauls me, do I share responsibility for being assaulted?
NigelVermouthIII 8 months ago
Yes
13 7 months, 4 weeks ago
Are you drunk?
Branford73 8 months ago
I agree it would be victim blaming if an assault occurred. Just because a woman is drunk doesn't give the man with her license to rape her. Czinger says as much in her article. But where consent is granted, either verbally or clear non-verbal actions by the woman, intoxication alone would not cancel the consent. Where there is evidence that she consented, her waking up the next morning and thinking: "I can tell we had sex but I don't remember it and don't remember consenting in any way. I would not have had sex with this guy unless I was drunk, so I was raped," does not make what happened a rape.
A very good reason for a man not to go forward in such an ambiguous situation is to avoid being accused or thought of as a rapist (even if it's just his partner who thinks so) or even to avoid having someone regret having had sex with him.
Leah 8 months ago
"It turns an objective crime into a subjective opinion."
Rape really isn't an objectively verifiable crime. In the example everyone seems most willing to accept as rape (that of an armed assailant in an alley), rape is still a he-said-she-said crime, unless there were witnesses who heard the woman protest. There is not a physical way to prove rape. DNA tests can prove who had sex with you, but they cannot prove the sex was not consensual.
There's often an assumption that rape can be proved by evidence of trauma (genital bruising, bleeding, etc). This does not occur in all rapes, and the idea that a woman should resist her rapist to make sure he hurts her 'enough.'
You can see some of the dangers of assuming rape is objectively discernible in the acquittal of this NYC cop.
81 8 months ago
" the idea that a woman should resist her rapist to make sure he hurts her 'enough.'"
Sorry, what do you mean by this?
Leah 8 months ago
If we're looking for very clear physical evidence of rape, the person being raped is expected to have resisted enough to be injured (vaginal tearing, bruising, etc). If a woman is threatened with a gun or is just a lot weaker than her assailant, she may think she is putting her life in danger by trying to physically overpower her rapist. At a trial, her lack of injury will be used as evidence that the sex was consensual.
River_Tam 8 months ago
Well, this is a great basis for determining guilt Beyond a Reasonable Doubt.
Leah 8 months ago
Well, that's the problem trying to judge a crime that usually occurs without witnesses.
nikemanvc 8 months ago
the standard isn't subjective as to whether that specific girl subjectively thought she was raped-- it's if a reasonable person would interpret the events as rape. The reasonable person test is as objective a test as our judicial system advances
Frashizzle 8 months ago
The subjectivity of the crime if rape gives us even more reason to stop throwing the term around campus so readily.
j91 8 months ago
Antonia, thanks for providing the first sane, well-reasoned opinion piece on this issue.
rm13 8 months ago
I have never been more disgusted by something written in the YDN. And that's saying something.
River_Tam 8 months ago
rm13, you seem to only jump out of the woodwork when the issue is sex. Stop being such a cliche.
rm13 8 months ago
If it were actually cliche to care about sexual violence, we would live in a much better world and on a much safer campus.
kdaysandtou 8 months ago
Care to make a detailed critique of Czinger's argument? Or are you content with your petulant show of superiority?
ShaveTheWhales 8 months ago
Antonia, just because rape isn't talked about in your circle of friends, and despite your mock assumption that there are never swapped "stories of rape of breakfast," it doesn't mean that rape as a result of drunken lack of consent doesn't happen.
The Title IX complainants (although sometimes over-demanding, in my opinion) are fighting for those women on campus who were after parties, who stumbled home with another person but for some reason or another decided not to have sex but wasn't able to choose. Please don't assume that just because you're fine hooking up anytime with any guy regardless of the number of beers you chugged that other girls feel the same way.
sonofmory 8 months ago
"...but for some reason or another decided not to have sex but wasn't able to choose"
what does that mean exactly? a decision is equal to a choice. also, if at some point she decided not to have sex and verbalized that and the man went ahead anyway, i agree that is rape. however, if a girl is so drunk as to go home with someone and is not able to verbalize her lack of consent, the male is at no more fault than the female.
amenhotep 8 months ago
I don't know what the law says, but Yale policy and advising holds that a person who is drunk is not capable of giving true consent. Does anyone here know what the law says (for what it's worth)?
rm13 8 months ago
Yale's policy says that people who are "incapacitated" can't give consent. There is a big difference between being buzzed and being incapacitated.
nikemanvc 8 months ago
the actual text of the Connecticut statute says "[a] person is guilty of sexual assault in the first degree when such person... engages in sexual intercourse with another person and such other person is mentally incapacitated to the extent that such other person is unable to consent to such sexual intercourse” (General Statutes of Connecticut, Title 53a, Chapter 952)
AKC13 8 months ago
Hello. This is Antonia. I did not say that rape could not happen to someone who was drunk. I was writing about specific situations that should not be classified as rape. I also noted that any form of sexual regret should be taken seriously. Your writing is not clear; I can't respond beyond what I've already written.
Also, it is amusing that you would try to undermine my argument by insinuating that I am sexually promiscuous. I am not. Moreover, there is nothing in my article to indicate that I think girls should be fine with "hooking up anytime with any guy regardless of the number of beers." Your last sentence is as inaccurate as it is hateful.
Frashizzle 8 months ago
"ShaveTheWhales" is advancing an ad hominem argument. They're what bad policy debate teams use when they don't have an actual argument to advance. My last sentence was also an example an ad hominem argument.
River_Tam 8 months ago
Wow you are a terrible human being.
amenhotep 8 months ago
Kudos to the author for a well-expressed and reasonable position. The word rape is etymologically related to the idea of seizing or abducting, and - though its English usage has changed since it first entered the language - its power should be reserved for real acts of violence.
And special kudos for the acknowledgement that those who are intoxicated or often the ones more likely to initiate sex, and aggressively.
theantiyale 8 months ago
The presumption of "drunk" as normal here is irritating. The only time drunk was ever an excuse for beating your wife was when the judge was a male judge. I hardly think it is an excuse for ANYTHING in this gender neutral, feminist-friendly world.
BaruchAtta 8 months ago
If the year was 1950, and a girl left a party with a boy, and they did not have a committed relationship (ring and a date for the wedding) and then there was sex, I would say that there is a very good case for a charge of rape. Because in 1950, girls did not give it out for free. But today, if a girl leaves a party with a boy, and there was sex, you can hardly charge the boy with rape, because just about every girl gives it away anyway. Unless the girl was religious or somehow had some known commitment to chastity. Or there are signs of a struggle. But girl leaves party with boy then accuses of rape, well its now a he says she says. Does that constitute "beyond a reasonable doubt"? I don't think so. What I am saying is that leaving a party with a boy is basically consent in today's moral environment. If a girl doesn't want sex, then don't leave the party with a boy. Go home with a girlfriend or call a cab. That's just the way it is today.
PhysicsAlum 8 months ago
Ladies and gentleman, rape culture defined in a single paragraph.
River_Tam 8 months ago
Yup, and the cause of it is (drumroll please) the normalization of casual sex, which gives cover to actual rapists.
Branford73 8 months ago
What a horrible statement and completely untrue. As much as I despise most of the "rape culture" language, PhysicsAlum has a point. This attitude does likely exist among potential jurors. The statement is akin to saying wearing a skimpy outfit is giving consent to sex or that a woman walking around in public without covering her hair is a prostitute. Not in this country Mr. Atta.
lolzipan 8 months ago
Wowza.
penny_lane 8 months ago
You're trolling, right? Please say you're trolling.
morse_14 8 months ago
It's the YDN. 'Nuff said.
penny_lane 8 months ago
"How can the boy know if his partner is “too drunk to give consent”?"
The fact that he's a boy is the first clue he shouldn't be having sex. It takes maturity to know when your partner is "not all there."
Frashizzle 8 months ago
Is that a serious comment... because, if so, you're adding a third dimension of blurriness to the term 'rape.'
penny_lane 8 months ago
Not really, I just don't think anyone young or immature enough to be called a "boy" should be having sex. I think part of the issue here is that the attitude many college-aged "boys" have towards sex (i.e., racking up the notches on your bedpost) makes it really hard to distinguish stupidity and immaturity from genuine predation. It doesn't change the definition of rape, which is sex without consent, nor does ignorance eliminate responsibility.
HighStreet2010 8 months ago
Why didn't you object to the term 'girl' as used in the article? Having sexual activities with someone young or immature enough to be called "girl" is probably statutory rape if nothing else, right?
penny_lane 8 months ago
I never said I didn't. It's just much rarer for a girl to rape someone because she was too immature to understand what constitutes real, glorious, consensual sex.
River_Tam 7 months, 4 weeks ago
I agree with you, penny_lane, but I'm not sure how this is related to whether or not he should be charged with rape.
theantiyale 8 months ago
So do Drunk Daters need a Designated Duena to tell them they are too drunk to have sex?
QuinnipiacGroupie 8 months ago
Antonia is right on. Amen.
DH2014 8 months ago
"The fact is that when she drank that extra gin and tonic, she opened herself up to the possibility that she might grab that boy from Chemistry section and take off her tank top."
Just... wow. For one, this is blatant victim blaming. For two, since when has taking off your shirt EVER meant that sex is immediately forthcoming (second base anyone)? And for three, the woman in this situation is assumed to be the "instigator," which is not always the case. Even if it was, the allowance of sexual activity does not promise sexual intercourse. Period.
AKC13 8 months ago
It would be victim blaming if the boy qualified as a perpetrator. The situation I set up was one in which 1) she was to drunk to give consent, 2) she appeared functional (as people often do) 3) the boy thought she was fine, 4)the boy was also drunk and 5) she was a willing and enthusiastic participant in the sexual act. I am not saying that taking off your tank top means sex. I thought that was clear.
I never said the blackout partner is always the instigator. I thought that was also clear. Look back at the article.
tclady 8 months ago
but you acknowledge that in that situation, the woman is too drunk to give consent. sex without valid consent is rape, antonia. the rest of the story doesn't diminish that.
HighStreet2010 8 months ago
So all drunk sex is rape, 100% of the time? Interesting.
Also, we are talking about a situation where the woman "was willing and enthusiastic" - How is the male (or penetrating party, to be gender neutral) supposed to know that it isn't valid consent? Bedside breathalyzers?
nick 8 months ago
You are blatantly reading what you want instead of what's written. She didn't write "The fact is that when she drank that extra gin and tonic, she opened herself up to the possibility that that boy from Chemistry section might grab her and take off her tank top."
Antonia wrote that, by getting excessively drunk, the girl opened up the possibility that she herself would instigate an act and give consent that she may not otherwise. If she initiates the act and the boy is also too drunk to give consent, he's the one who has been taken advantage of in this situation. That's the point.
This is not victim blaming.
Frashizzle 8 months ago
Great article, Antonia. You've reasoned your arguments to such a level that commentators on the negative side can only advance ad hominem and detail-fallacy arguments. (See above).
JEThirteen 8 months ago
Antonia, ignore the trash that most people are posting. You wrote the most sensible piece to appear in the YDN this past week. The silent majority is squarely on your side. It simply doesn't make sense to allege rape in situations in which both parties assent to sex while severely drunk and one then happens to regret the act the following morning.
wenzel 8 months ago
If I starve a tiger that lives in my locked bedroom for 6 days, and then enter the bedroom covered in bacon perfume and blackout drunk, am I responsible for getting mauled and eaten? What if it's a tigeress and I'm a man? A tiger and I'm a woman? What if the bacon perfume had been on sale?
These comments have some of the worst metaphors I've ever seen outside of William McGonagall's poetry.
Paul Keane's comments are as right-on as usual. TheAntiYale rightly points out that the real issue here isn't rape, but about alcoholism. We can only thank him for his continued contributions to our discussions here.
theantiyale 8 months ago
Am so accustomed to criticism I don't know how to respond, except to say: thank you.
PK
connman250 8 months ago
The rape culture was part of the feminist movement, where any sex, where the male took the leading role, was considered an assult on a female. If a male cruises around any red light district of a larger city, women will be advertising their whares by waring skimpy clothes. The same tactics may be used at a cocktail party or other social function. So women, from day one, tried to attract a male by whatever means necessary. Does this mean they should be sexually harrased? Of course not!
connman250 8 months ago
Why is the guy the blame for a sexual relationship gone bad? This is a question that many in here ask. The truth is that the male traditionally takes the leading role in most sexual encounters because this is what nature demands, even though man has a greater brain mass then all other living creatures.
BK2013 8 months ago
Nice article Antonia! I'm glad someone, and especially a girl, stepped up and said this for once.
Bucket 7 months, 4 weeks ago
Thanks for a well-written article Antonia. It stands as a convincing argument. The distinction between rape and regrettable sex is important. I am a male. I have had sex with women when probably I was too drunk to give consent. I am not proud of this. In fact, in some cases I have regretted it. Under the broad definition proposed by other YDN opinion pieces, I was raped.
Don't forget that rape can be perpetrated by males or females.
If both parties are too intoxicated to give consent, who is to blame? The one with the lower BAC? Perhaps whoever's room was the location of the sex? It strikes me as somewhat unfair to instantly place the onus on the male.
theantiyale 7 months, 4 weeks ago
the male traditionally takes the leading role in most sexual encounters because this is what nature demands
WHAT NATURE DEMANDS?
Are you kidding?
Why? DEMANDS because the male genetic coupling equipment is conVEX and the female is conCAVE? Because a phallus is a Freudian penetrator, an instrument of assertion and insertion; but a womb is a Freudian receptor, and instrument of internal acquiescence?
C'mon.
I'm a Freudian, but not a PRISONER of FreudianISM.
connman250 7 months, 4 weeks ago
The above thinking makes me laugh. It's not the shape of any sexual equiptment that we have but it's natures force to procreate. Antiyale is hung up on some Freudian analysis and trying to separate man from nature. Let's not deny what a man and a women are all about and that is procreation and has nothing to do with anyones rights.
theantiyale 7 months, 3 weeks ago
Nature DEMANDS that man take the lead?
Sexist nonsense.
Freudian nonsense.
Self-perpetuating male chauvinism.
. VANITY DEMANDS THAT THE MALE TAKE THE LEAD.
connman250 7 months, 3 weeks ago
Do you Yales ever study nature. It is the male who seeks the female out. You are brainwashed by liberal idiots.
81 7 months, 3 weeks ago
Animals exhibit an incredible variety of breeding systems, each associated with a variety of behaviors and male-female dynamics. Do you ever study nature?
liltomato79 7 months, 3 weeks ago
"If he is drunk, can he really judge her state? And what if he is also “too drunk to give consent”?
Since rape is NOT about sex but about power, this entirely article is misguided. Not surprising, really.
But if we're going to engage the terms of the argument laid out here, sticking your hard penis in someone too drunk to consent basically means you don't get to argue that you were too drunk to consent, too. Sorry.
connman250 7 months, 3 weeks ago
81, evidently, you haven't been to a bar lately!
applepear123 7 months, 2 weeks ago
This piece is disgusting and the writer has no right to call herself a feminist. This is BS.
anon82 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Next time I get drunk and accidentally hook up with a fat chick I'm going to accuse them of raping me.
btcl 7 months ago
@ applepear123
You need to articulate your reasoning for why asking women to define clear, reasonable standards for rape is against "feminism." If feminism is supposed to be about providing EQUAL rights, why shouldn't we apply the same standards to men? The author suggests reasonable measures like being responsible for your own drunken state. If a man were to be blackout drunk and wake up not remembering having consented to sex, no one would EVER buy a rape charge. Asking for unfair advantages for women instead of equal rights is what impedes true feminist claims.
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